Comments on: St. Francis Hospital: The real cost of having a baby http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/ Personal blog of Brad "Otis" Willis, writer, traveler, amateur photographer, and family man Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:57:18 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Terry http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-83981 Terry Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:18:54 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-83981 Hello, just wanted to mention, I loved this article. It was inspiring. Keep on posting! Hello, just wanted to mention, I loved this article. It was inspiring. Keep on posting!

]]> By: keith mckelvey m.d. http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-78540 keith mckelvey m.d. Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:34:18 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-78540 sorry to hear of all this pain associated with a beautiful time, your sons birth. i did not read any comments in my brief scanning of it all about the -massive inflation of charges- made by the doctors labs and facilities to compensate for all the discounts demanded by the insurance companies. if you read all your eob's (explanation of benefits) forms from your health ins company you will frequently see a bill for things like a single blood test costing $816 !!!! only to then see the disallowed charge or negotiated discount to the ins. company to be say $644 (this actual event seen by me this week for my own illness) and on the flip side as a medical doctor i have seen my bill sent to the insurance/medicare companies -for a nerve block i have provided that took time and skill and years of training- cut from $350 to $70 or less - but the worst part is that the working people without health ins (who can afford it nowadays??) think and are expected to pay the full inflated price!!!! no discount off the top for you some people who can afford health insurance premiums cannot renew their coverage due to big big increases the next year at renewal due to an illness/cancer etc diagnosed and treated the year before the whole system is a mess is broken i knew the system was broken the day i had a patient without health insurance even tho she was a school teacher and her husband held down two jobs to make ends meet and yet they could not afford the insurance one day a front page article in the news paper said that greenville memorial had increased it's room rates but the increase would only affect 20% of the patients as - 50% of the patients were medicare/medicaid and those gov programs paid only what they were going to pay without regard to true cost and 30% were charity care that paid nothing - that just left that 20% who had insurance or worse yet had some little money say a tax refund that the hospital could get ahold of and raise it's fees upon like a vulture on a hounded starving animal. it is not that the hospital or doctor or lab testing center or drug company or even insurance company is evil they are all having employees and overhead to pay(tho the upper upper management folks here as in all of america today are off the scale overpaid) - but it is all lacking in transparency and coordination and efficiency and accountability - and the government programs and the lawyers have really ruined it all sorry to hear of all this pain associated with a beautiful time, your sons birth. i did not read any comments in my brief scanning of it all about the -massive inflation of charges- made by the doctors labs and facilities to compensate for all the discounts demanded by the insurance companies. if you read all your eob’s (explanation of benefits) forms from your health ins company you will frequently see a bill for things like a single blood test costing $816 !!!! only to then see the disallowed charge or negotiated discount to the ins. company to be say $644 (this actual event seen by me this week for my own illness) and on the flip side as a medical doctor i have seen my bill sent to the insurance/medicare companies -for a nerve block i have provided that took time and skill and years of training- cut from $350 to $70 or less – but the worst part is that the working people without health ins (who can afford it nowadays??) think and are expected to pay the full inflated price!!!! no discount off the top for you some people who can afford health insurance premiums cannot renew their coverage due to big big increases the next year at renewal due to an illness/cancer etc diagnosed and treated the year before the whole system is a mess is broken i knew the system was broken the day i had a patient without health insurance even tho she was a school teacher and her husband held down two jobs to make ends meet and yet they could not afford the insurance one day a front page article in the news paper said that greenville memorial had increased it’s room rates but the increase would only affect 20% of the patients as – 50% of the patients were medicare/medicaid and those gov programs paid only what they were going to pay without regard to true cost and 30% were charity care that paid nothing – that just left that 20% who had insurance or worse yet had some little money say a tax refund that the hospital could get ahold of and raise it’s fees upon like a vulture on a hounded starving animal. it is not that the hospital or doctor or lab testing center or drug company or even insurance company is evil they are all having employees and overhead to pay(tho the upper upper management folks here as in all of america today are off the scale overpaid) – but it is all lacking in transparency and coordination and efficiency and accountability – and the government programs and the lawyers have really ruined it all

]]> By: 2010: The best and worst of Rapid Eye Reality | Rapid Eye Reality http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-71417 2010: The best and worst of Rapid Eye Reality | Rapid Eye Reality Fri, 31 Dec 2010 18:05:42 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-71417 [...] St. Francis Hospital: The real cost of having a baby–My 4,000-word love letter to the medical billing industry (also the most widely read and shared piece of the year) [...] [...] St. Francis Hospital: The real cost of having a baby–My 4,000-word love letter to the medical billing industry (also the most widely read and shared piece of the year) [...]

]]> By: SAL http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-69464 SAL Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:02:29 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-69464 Gosh, I thought I had problems with ST Francis insurance, of course but it was mild considering what Otis went through and others too. I was to have a procedure done (MRI) and everything was set up. Later, on the same day, I got a call from the billing dept at ST Francis stating that my supplemental insurance would not cover any charges that were left over after Medicare paid their 80% because they did not have a contract with the my supplemental carrier. They asked if I would be liable for the balance. I was shocked by that revelation as I had not had any problem ever in the past with my insurances. (Medicare is primary meaning a contract is only necessary with them, and therefore, the supplement insurance is not an issue.) St. Francis even agreed to set up the MRI with a provider that would pay, etc. Before I realized what I was saying, I agreed. One thing I haven't mentioned is that I had just come from meeting with the Xray tech, etc who read my biopsy of the right breast, which found a cancerous lesion that needed surgery. So, I was under duress, to say the least. After trying to rationalize about what the person was saying about insurance, I called my Supplemental insurance and asked them about paying and they said that I had received incorrect information from St FRancis. So, I immediately called back to ST Francis and told them to keep everything scheduled as is. I even talked with other personnel at St Francis billing and they all agreed with what I was told the first time, that it might not pay. I signed consent forms anytime I had any procedure done at ST Francis which includes a statement that I will pay any balance if any that is left over when everything is said and done. In this case they haven't even submitted the bill and they don't know if my supplemental insurance will pay so how can they ask me to pay prior to any procedure???? I'm wondering how many other patients have Medicare as primary with supplemental insurance, etc. that have received similar advice from St. Francis. Oh, yes, I want to say I agree with others who St Francis was about charity, etc. Ha Ha to that. They intend to get every dime owed them. I, too agree that their other employees, nurses, aids, etc are wonderful and are very kind to patients. tnx Gosh, I thought I had problems with ST Francis insurance, of course but it was mild considering what Otis went through and others too.
I was to have a procedure done (MRI) and everything was set up. Later, on the same day, I got a call from the billing dept at ST Francis stating that my supplemental insurance would not cover any charges that were left over after Medicare paid their 80% because they did not have a contract with the my supplemental carrier. They asked if I would be liable for the balance. I was shocked by that revelation as I had not had any problem ever in the past with my insurances. (Medicare is primary meaning a contract is only necessary with them, and therefore, the supplement insurance is not an issue.) St. Francis even agreed to set up the MRI with a provider that would pay, etc. Before I realized what I was saying, I agreed. One thing I haven’t mentioned is that I had just come from meeting with the Xray tech, etc who read my biopsy of the right breast, which found a cancerous lesion that needed surgery. So, I was under duress, to say the least.

After trying to rationalize about what the person was saying about insurance, I called my Supplemental insurance and asked them about paying and they said that I had received incorrect information from St FRancis. So, I immediately called back to ST Francis and told them to keep everything scheduled as is. I even talked with other personnel at St Francis billing and they all agreed with what I was told the first time, that it might not pay.

I signed consent forms anytime I had any procedure done at ST Francis which includes a statement that I will pay any balance if any that is left over when everything is said and done. In this case they haven’t even submitted the bill and they don’t know if my supplemental insurance will pay so how can they ask me to pay prior to any procedure????

I’m wondering how many other patients have Medicare as primary with supplemental insurance, etc. that have received similar advice from St. Francis.

Oh, yes, I want to say I agree with others who St Francis was about charity, etc. Ha Ha to that. They intend to get every dime owed them.

I, too agree that their other employees, nurses, aids, etc are wonderful and are very kind to patients.

tnx

]]> By: Georgia http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-67126 Georgia Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:48:03 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-67126 I have to say that right at the outset of your story, it seemed like you had made a couple big mistakes. First of all, not having maternity insurance, knowing that you plan on having a baby? I know you said you wanted to save and grow your money in the bank, and that makes sense, but if you're going to turn down insurance you ought to make sure that you will actually still be saving money this way, even if you end up with the highest possible cost from the hospital. Secondly, I am sorry but I don't think it was smart for you to pay the bill beforehand. If you have ever spent any time in a hospital before, you know that after your visit they will send you bill after incomprehensible bill, and you might still be getting them a year later. The costs are not set in stone. Yeah it would be great for everybody if they were, but it just does not work like that. And also, hospitals seem to have horrible bookkeeping. I was actually surprised that they didn't lose track of your payment entirely. So to ask for an exact price and pay upfront seems incredibly risky with that amount of money, and because of the other random costs you are going to have more bills coming to you later anyway. Lastly, that 1500$ bill did sound unfair. However, you did all you could with it, it's time to just pay it and move on with your life. You have a healthy baby, your wife had a great birth and is also healthy, it is not worth stressing everybody out about this extra 1500$. And anyway, the national average for natural childbirth is around 10000$ in a hospital anyway, if you had panned for that at the outset you would have had more than enough money to begin with. I I have to say that right at the outset of your story, it seemed like you had made a couple big mistakes. First of all, not having maternity insurance, knowing that you plan on having a baby? I know you said you wanted to save and grow your money in the bank, and that makes sense, but if you’re going to turn down insurance you ought to make sure that you will actually still be saving money this way, even if you end up with the highest possible cost from the hospital. Secondly, I am sorry but I don’t think it was smart for you to pay the bill beforehand. If you have ever spent any time in a hospital before, you know that after your visit they will send you bill after incomprehensible bill, and you might still be getting them a year later. The costs are not set in stone. Yeah it would be great for everybody if they were, but it just does not work like that. And also, hospitals seem to have horrible bookkeeping. I was actually surprised that they didn’t lose track of your payment entirely. So to ask for an exact price and pay upfront seems incredibly risky with that amount of money, and because of the other random costs you are going to have more bills coming to you later anyway. Lastly, that 1500$ bill did sound unfair. However, you did all you could with it, it’s time to just pay it and move on with your life. You have a healthy baby, your wife had a great birth and is also healthy, it is not worth stressing everybody out about this extra 1500$. And anyway, the national average for natural childbirth is around 10000$ in a hospital anyway, if you had panned for that at the outset you would have had more than enough money to begin with.

I

]]> By: St. Francis Hospital responds…but not to us | Rapid Eye Reality http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-64585 St. Francis Hospital responds…but not to us | Rapid Eye Reality Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:00:17 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-64585 [...] you were one of the thousands of people who read and commented on the story about our St. Francis Hospital billing dispute, you might have wondered how this little tale [...] [...] you were one of the thousands of people who read and commented on the story about our St. Francis Hospital billing dispute, you might have wondered how this little tale [...]

]]> By: kas http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-63099 kas Sat, 06 Feb 2010 05:47:24 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-63099 Otis: I hope you don't accept Jeff Phillip's offer. He can't think of a valid legal reason to sue the hospital, but is willing to waste everyone's time so the hospital is out $10,000 in legal fees. This is a great example of why the US Healthcare System is broken. My advise to you - choose better friends. Otis:

I hope you don’t accept Jeff Phillip’s offer. He can’t think of a valid legal reason to sue the hospital, but is willing to waste everyone’s time so the hospital is out $10,000 in legal fees. This is a great example of why the US Healthcare System is broken.

My advise to you – choose better friends.

]]> By: Marcia http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-63061 Marcia Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:50:05 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-63061 I am in a similar situation and I'm not sure if I will win but I'm going to try. I was due to have surgery on December 8th. I went to pre-register and to pay my portion of the bill. The clerk said she had talked to my insurance company and that my portion would be almost $400.00. I askd if she was sure because just two days earlier I had been told that my portion would be a little over $900.00. She said she was sure. I finished signing the papers and again I asked if she was sure, she said she was definately sure. I paid her the amount she asked for and thought that was that. I had the surgery, routine, no complications and went home before noon the next day. I got a bill for close to $500.00 from the hospital. I called them and then called my insurance company. I called the hospital back and asked for a itemized statement. I got it and called questioning some of the charges, like medication I never got. That was two weeks ago when I was told that they would check into the charges for me. Today I got another phone call from the hospital billing office asking if I wanted to pay the $1100.00 I owed right then or arrange for payments. I asked her why the orignal bill was for less that half that and I was told that when they re-looked at my bill at my request they found more things that I should have been charged for. I am going to fight this. What other place does anyone do business with that the amount they are charged isn't known until after the service has been performed. I am in a similar situation and I’m not sure if I will win but I’m going to try. I was due to have surgery on December 8th. I went to pre-register and to pay my portion of the bill. The clerk said she had talked to my insurance company and that my portion would be almost $400.00. I askd if she was sure because just two days earlier I had been told that my portion would be a little over $900.00. She said she was sure. I finished signing the papers and again I asked if she was sure, she said she was definately sure. I paid her the amount she asked for and thought that was that. I had the surgery, routine, no complications and went home before noon the next day.
I got a bill for close to $500.00 from the hospital. I called them and then called my insurance company. I called the hospital back and asked for a itemized statement. I got it and called questioning some of the charges, like medication I never got. That was two weeks ago when I was told that they would check into the charges for me. Today I got another phone call from the hospital billing office asking if I wanted to pay the $1100.00 I owed right then or arrange for payments.
I asked her why the orignal bill was for less that half that and I was told that when they re-looked at my bill at my request they found more things that I should have been charged for.
I am going to fight this. What other place does anyone do business with that the amount they are charged isn’t known until after the service has been performed.

]]> By: Continuing adventures in health care | Rapid Eye Reality http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-63042 Continuing adventures in health care | Rapid Eye Reality Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:36:33 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-63042 [...] couple of days after posting St. Francis Hospital: The real cost of having a baby, I got some mail. If you read the piece (and, based on the traffic I received to it, I’m [...] [...] couple of days after posting St. Francis Hospital: The real cost of having a baby, I got some mail. If you read the piece (and, based on the traffic I received to it, I’m [...]

]]> By: JEFF PHILLIPS http://www.rapideyereality.com/archives/2010/01/19/st-francis-hospital-the-real-cost-of-having-a-baby/comment-page-1/#comment-63023 JEFF PHILLIPS Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:13:26 +0000 http://www.rapideyereality.com/?p=2546#comment-63023 I am a sole-practitioner plaintiff's attorney, and have been an attorneyr for 17 years. I have been out on my own for almost 12 years. I hate insurance companies. I hate big government. I hate mega-companies. They all run over people with relative impunity. Are there good people in all of these fields? Certainly. But looked at as a whole, they are almost all inherently evil. What happens when the little guy makes a mistake or fails to pay? Interest. Penalties. Late fees. Credit gets ruined. Loans get called. Foreclosure. Collection agencies. Lawsuits. What happens when the government, insurance company or big business makes a mistake, or worse, acts intentionally to screw somebody? Most of the time...absolutely nothing. I hate them. Brad, I will take this case. I'm not exactly sure what the cause of action will be, I'm not sure what our chance of recovering anything will be, I'm not sure someone won't laugh at us along the way. But you are a friend and I'm sick of this stuff happening to the little guy. At the very least I'll bet we can make them spend about $10K in legal fees having to deal with us. Hey - I got berated when I took the poker cases as well and now we are going before the freakin' South Carolina Supreme Court having won on every issue below. Occassionally right does win. Jeff Phillips I am a sole-practitioner plaintiff’s attorney, and have been an attorneyr for 17 years. I have been out on my own for almost 12 years. I hate insurance companies. I hate big government. I hate mega-companies. They all run over people with relative impunity. Are there good people in all of these fields? Certainly. But looked at as a whole, they are almost all inherently evil. What happens when the little guy makes a mistake or fails to pay? Interest. Penalties. Late fees. Credit gets ruined. Loans get called. Foreclosure. Collection agencies. Lawsuits. What happens when the government, insurance company or big business makes a mistake, or worse, acts intentionally to screw somebody? Most of the time…absolutely nothing. I hate them.

Brad, I will take this case. I’m not exactly sure what the cause of action will be, I’m not sure what our chance of recovering anything will be, I’m not sure someone won’t laugh at us along the way. But you are a friend and I’m sick of this stuff happening to the little guy. At the very least I’ll bet we can make them spend about $10K in legal fees having to deal with us. Hey – I got berated when I took the poker cases as well and now we are going before the freakin’ South Carolina Supreme Court having won on every issue below. Occassionally right does win.

Jeff Phillips

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